How can you accelerate planned giving?

Farra Trompeter: Welcome to the Smart Communications Podcast. This is Farra Trompeter, co-director and worker-owner at Big Duck. And today I have the pleasure of talking with Tony Martignetti all about the question: How can you accelerate planned giving? Let me start by telling you a little bit about Tony. So Tony Martignetti uses he/him pronouns and is the evangelist for planned giving, having worked in the field for nearly 30 years. His new book just came out, Planned Giving Accelerated, which he wrote to help small and mid-sized nonprofits make planned giving fundraising easy, accessible, and affordable. Tony is a former lawyer and is also host of the Tony Martignetti Nonprofit Radio Podcast, which I’ve had the pleasure of being on twice, and I am delighted to invite him on the first time on the Smart Communications Podcast, and I am sure not the last. Tony, welcome to the show.

Tony Martignetti: Thank you so much, Farra. It’s good to see you, my old friend. Thank you. Thanks for hosting.

Farra Trompeter: It is true. We go way back. I can’t even remember how far back, but you know, we’ll say it’s been a minute.

Tony Martignetti: It’s, yeah, it’s been an hour.

Farra Trompeter: It’s at least been an hour. If you’ve ever been to the Nonprofit Technology Conference by NTEN, I love Tony. He always has a live recording booth set up in the exhibit hall there. You may have seen him at lots of other nonprofit industry conferences. He was just at the Bridge Conference. He’s been at different AFP conferences. So you may have actually seen Tony in action, but today we’ve got the tables turned, and we get to interview him. So Tony, let’s start with a big, easy question. Why did you write this book? What about Planned Giving Accelerated needed to be told? And why do you think so many nonprofits are intimidated by the idea of planned giving?

Tony Martignetti: Farra, your second question is the answer to the first.

Farra Trompeter: Okay, there you go.

Tony Martignetti: I wrote the book because so many small and mid-sized nonprofits are intimidated by planned giving. They think they need technical experts, expertise on the board, or a consultant. They think they have to scale up the professional development of the team before we can talk to anybody about planned giving because we have to offer so many planned giving options. They think it’s a death conversation. They think, “It’s going to hurt our other fundraising.” These are all nasty myths, in fact, that offend me. These myths just really cut me to the core. And I have, in the book “Tony’s Top Six Myths”. But I wrote the book to put it in the positive. Instead of what planned giving is not–that it’s not too technical and a death conversation, et cetera. So that small and mid-sized nonprofits would understand and recognize that planned giving for them, when it’s done right–when your launch is done smartly and focused–it’s easy, accessible, and affordable.

Farra Trompeter: Great. You outline a lot of very helpful tips and frameworks in the tools, and one of those is “The Martignetti three-step, one-week planned giving launch”. So I’m curious if you could talk about the steps in that process and how is it realistically possible for an understaffed, busy nonprofit to get a program off the ground in just one week? Break it down for us, Tony.

Tony Martignetti: Yes. I love that question. Thank you, Farra. So, “The Martignetti three-step, one-week planned giving launch” is the first three chapters of the book. Chapter one is step one. Chapter two is step two. Chapter three is step three. And I’ll name them each in a second. When you’re done reading the first three chapters of the book, and there are more chapters. It’s not just a little picture book with only 14 pages, right?

Farra Trompeter: That’ll come out later. Once you become this bestseller, they’re going to be like craving for the children’s and the picture-book edition.

Tony Martignetti: Yes. I’ll need an illustrator, and I’ll need a children’s book writer because this is my one and only, I’m pretty sure. Even a children’s book, I think, is beyond me after this. So after you read the first three chapters, which are the three steps, you can launch planned giving within a week because launching planned giving means you’re starting to have conversations about planned gifts with top prospects. That’s it. This is sort of key to what the Big Duck work is. I know you don’t strictly build websites, but it’s a marketing communications agency. But you don’t need a planned giving page. You certainly don’t need a planned giving website to start having these conversations.

Farra Trompeter: Let me just pause and say we, in fact, don’t build websites, but I’m happy to.

Tony Martignetti: You don’t. I know you don’t.

Farra Trompeter: That’s right.

Tony Martignetti: It’s a marketing and communications agency.

Farra Trompeter: Right. But we do do lots of other things related to this, which we’ll come back to.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. And these things can be valuable. They are valuable. But not for launch. You don’t need them to launch your planned giving program.

Farra Trompeter: You don’t need to have a department of three people just doing planned giving.

Tony Martignetti: You do not. No. You don’t even need one person devoted to it. You probably don’t have one person devoted to planned giving. If you did, you don’t need my book. Okay, so chapter one is step one: Identify your top prospects. Chapter two is step two: Start with gifts and wills. And chapter three is step three: cultivate and solicit your top prospects. So identifying the right people to talk to. These are your most loyal, committed donors. We don’t care what their giving history has been. We’re interested in the longevity of the giving. I don’t care if their average gift was $5. I don’t care if their total lifetime giving was $800, $400. I don’t care. It’s the longevity, the consistency, the loyalty. These are the folks who’ve been giving to you for 15, 20, 25 years. And we’re only interested in that longevity. Okay? Those are your top prospects. And somebody in your office has a good relationship with them. So they take the calls. They reply to the emails. They come to your events. Somebody, at least one person, has a good relationship because that person is the person who’s going to be doing the cultivating and soliciting when we get to step three.

Farra Trompeter: Well, I want to talk about, let’s say, all right, I’ve read the first three chapters, if not the whole book. But we’re going to read the whole book, but we’ve done these three chapters. We’re out and about there. But I’m getting some pushback from members of my team or from my board because they’re worried that planned giving might take away from other forms of giving. What does the data say about how naming a nonprofit in a will, step two there, how does that actually impact a donor’s annual giving?

Tony Martignetti: Increases it. So I’ve got two sets of answers to that important question. First is my 29 years of anecdotes. I’ve seen probably a thousand people or more increase their other giving to the same nonprofit after they make their commitment to put the organization in their will. But you might say, “Tony Martignetti, all right, you know, big deal. Oh, he’s got his anecdotes. He’s got, he’s got almost 30 years of anecdotes, but it’s still anecdotal. I dismiss it.” Then I would turn you to the quantitative research of Professor Russell James at Texas Tech University, who wrote the foreword for my book. So this quantitative researcher in planned giving agrees with my philosophy and my framework of launching at small and mid-sized nonprofits. He wrote the foreword. He has authoritative quantitative research that shows that, on average, 75% of people who make a gift in their will for that charity–not even just a general planned gift of any type, a gift in a will–three-quarters of those people, on average, will increase their other giving to that same nonprofit. So you’ve got my lots of years of anecdotes; you’ve got Russell James’ quantitative, empirical research that shows that it will increase. It’s very, very likely to increase your other giving.

Farra Trompeter: It makes sense, yeah.

Tony Martignetti: It does make sense.

Farra Trompeter: If I’ve said, “I care enough about you that I want to see you continue beyond my life,” then I must care about you. I want to see you while I’m living too!

Tony Martignetti: Exactly right. They’ve made a big step. They put you alongside their dear loved ones in their will. They love your work. And, like you said, they want to see it continue now. They don’t only want to fund you long term. They want to increase their lifetime giving to your work because they feel that much closer to you. You’re right alongside their partner or spouse in their will.

Farra Trompeter: Right. You know, I want to go back to one of those myths that I’m sorry to make, I know, I don’t want to make you upset, Tony, but I do want to talk about one of the most toxic of the myths, which is, and you referenced earlier, which is that planned giving is “a death conversation”. For those who are dealing with that concern themselves or dealing with having to counter that myth internally, how do you coach fundraisers to reframe this into a joyful, inspiring conversation about life and legacy and not a “death conversation”?

Tony Martignetti: Exactly right. We turn this myth on its head that it’s about death. And it is, as you just said; it’s about life. The life, longevity, and sustainability of your nonprofit in your community. However you define community, it might be a local community, state, province, if you’re one of our northern neighbors in Canada, the earth, whatever your community is, you know, and your committed loyal donors know that the work must continue for decades and generations. So that’s why you’re talking to your most loyal, committed donors, because you have with them that key thing in common. You love the work; they love the work. You’re asking them to continue the funding of the work for the long term because your sustainability in the community is essential. So it is a conversation about life and longevity.

Farra Trompeter: Great. And, you know, one of the things that brings me joy is food. I like to say I’m a self-described foodie here. I love, love a good meal. And, of course, it stood out to me, and one of the elements of the book was the Martignetti Meal Plan. So talk to me about why do you prefer conducting these conversations with donors over restaurant tables? And how does the natural cadence of a meal make the ask feel seamless?

Tony Martignetti: Well, the meal in the Martignetti Meal Plan is an acronym for Meals Expertly Allow Learning. Because I think, as you said, the cadence of a meal–we know when the server is going to come. We know the rhythm. Everybody, it’s a shared thing. Americans who are adults understand what the rhythm is going to be for a served meal in a restaurant. Plus, there’s the shared table. I like to do these meetings over meals because I feel like I’m in community with the other person, or occasionally it’s a couple. Usually it’s one-on-one. We’re sharing a space. Well, we’re not sharing the meal. I’m not saying you’re sharing; you’re picking up the person’s food. No, I’m not saying that, because you’re a foodie…

Farra Trompeter: I mean, I do like to share. I do order a little bit of this, a little bit of that. You try this, I try that.

Tony Martignetti: Exactly. Well, especially if it’s Indian or if it’s dim sum or something. But all meals, I think all meals allow that, you know, when we know each other. I mean, I would share my meal with you.

Farra Trompeter: I’m so glad to know I’ve reached that status with you, Tony.

Tony Martignetti: You have. You’re not in my will, but you’ve reached the status of plate sharing. I will share my plate with you. But for donors, you know, we’re not, I’m not talking about that. But the shared table: we have this shared space in common. So the rhythm of the meal, the shared space, the natural pauses that come with having a sip, having more bites. Pauses in silence are not something to be afraid of. They’re not to be feared, is what I was attempting to say. Pauses can be dramatic. Pauses can call attention to what we just said or what we’re about to say. So the natural pauses that come as you’re eating, as your donor is eating, all these reasons, I like to do as many meetings as possible over meals. Now, I know a lot of folks may be uncomfortable with that. They don’t want to worry about who pays the check. They don’t want to worry about, do I drink alcohol? If she does, but I don’t drink, or I don’t want to drink during business hours because it’s a lunch. You know, if for whatever reason or you, you don’t feel comfortable in a social setting, maybe with some donors, I understand that’s a possibility too. Then, then you do you, and you have your meetings wherever you’re most comfortable. I’m just recommending that if you’re open to it, consider the value of donor and prospect meetings over meals. If it makes you uncomfortable, dismiss that part of the book. And it’s not like it’s a whole chapter. It’s like a page.

Farra Trompeter: Take what you want from it. Now, you were talking about anecdotes earlier, and there are lots of stories in your book, including one from Cheryl McCormick at the Athens Area Humane Society. And she asked donors, “How do you want to be remembered?” So with that in mind, how can fundraisers show up as their authentic selves, just like you were talking about? A dinner or a meal may not be for them, but how do they show up as their authentic selves without wearing professional masks during these deeply emotional moments, right? There’s a lot that I know was in Cheryl’s story, but I wonder if you could talk about that.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. There’s another expert too, Sherry Quam Taylor, cited in the book who says exactly what you just said, Farra. Come as yourself. Put aside the facades of what you think, personas of what you think a professional fundraiser should look like, sound like, act like, and just be yourself. Because you’re in a relationship business. And I hope, because you are, that you enjoy the company of other people. You like relationships. Hopefully you have a natural curiosity about people. These things, my advice is to just let them come out. So Cheryl’s excellent framing of, you know, the way she solicits is, you know, asking folks, “How would you like to be remembered? What legacy would you like to be remembered through?” And she carries on her planned giving conversations from there. And that’s why I cite her in the book. But I urge any fundraiser, you’re in a relationship business, I hope you’re comfortable having relationships, professional relationships with your donors and prospects because you’ve got a joyful topic in common, a subject in common, the love of your work. Launch from there.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, that’s great. Well, before we wrap up, I want to leave our listeners with some next steps. So for small development teams with zero budget, what are some simple low-lift marketing tactics they can use to promote their planned giving program? And I want to also say, in your book you advocate for sidebars over articles and letters over expensive brochures. And I’m curious if you could talk a little bit about that, too.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. I have a chapter in the book devoted to marketing, low-lift marketing. So some easy things. When you’re having an event, it is very likely that you can put in a couple of speaking points. I mean, we’re talking about a few sentences into the remarks that either you’re making or maybe you’re the one tasked with preparing the remarks for the person who is going to speak. Just about the fact that, and this parallels the way your solicitation meetings will go, “We’re focused on the long term. And we’re asking our committed loyal donors like all of you who have come to the event, to consider including us in your will. It’s very simple to do. And you could talk to Farra in the back of the room, and we thank you for thinking about us and our sustainability, our longevity in the community.”

Tony Martignetti: And what you’re setting up Farra for is not a conversation that gets technical about wills. It’s a conversation about what you have in common. The longevity of your nonprofit and how valuable a long-term gift in someone’s will can be to that work. And so if you, Farra, at the event, if you get any technical questions like, “Should I make this a percentage or a dollar amount? Or I’ve heard like there’s residual states and wills, and what does that all mean?” Then you’re just politely referring folks to their estate planning attorney or maybe to a financial advisor. You’re referring them to their trusted professionals. Your conversation with your donors and prospects is about your work, because that’s what you have in common with them. So other tips you mentioned, I much prefer sidebars over articles because articles is like, you’ve got to write 250, 300 words and…

Farra Trompeter: You’re talking about like a little blurb in a newsletter, maybe highlighting it.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. Do a sidebar. Do a sidebar instead because in like 60 words or so, 60, 70 words, you can say what I was just saying for the events. We’re focused on the long-term because you know how important our work is in the community. It’s so easy for you to include us in your will for long-term support for our work. Here’s the three things you need. And this, this goes in your sidebar. You need our legal name, our federal tax ID number (your EIN) and our office address. With those three things, people can put you in their will without having to come back to you. So you want like low lift, low barriers. And so there’s a sidebar. And then if you want more info, contact Farra Trompeter, and here’s our email and phone. And there’s your sidebar.

Farra Trompeter: I would love to talk to all of your donors. Feel free to send them my way.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. Farra is the universal, ubiquitous, omnipresent planned giving contact for all the pod listeners.

Farra Trompeter: There you go.

Tony Martignetti: Yeah. So do sidebars instead of articles. You know, put aside the 17-paragraph articles about the history of wills in the United States for the past 200 years. Forget the wills, forget the history of wills, and just focus on a simple sidebar. So are there marketing tips? You asked, you know, what are some low-lift tips? That sidebar, repurpose it as a buck slip going into a mailing. Not a planned giving mailing. It’s a mailing for some other purpose. But now you got a third of a page, a planned giving buck slip for you to drop in. Doesn’t increase the postage cost because it’s only a third of a page. And you’ve already got it done because you wrote the sidebar for some other e-newsletter or your annual report or, you know, whatever marketing piece. Sidebars. Big fan of sidebars over articles.

Farra Trompeter: And I just want to mention, the most recent podcast I had the pleasure of joining you on a few months ago was with my colleague, Ishmam R. Rahman from the International Rescue Committee. And Ishmam and I talked to you on your podcast about branding work we did with the International Rescue Committee around a donor community, including their legacy giving program, which is now called Rescue Changemakers, part of the Rescue Collective. And we’ll be sure to link to that. If people want to think about branding of legacy giving, that’s something Big Duck’s been doing more of. So we’ll be sure to link to that in the show notes at bigduck.com/insights. Well, if you’d like to dive more deeply into this topic, you can order Tony’s book at Amazon or Barnes & Noble. You can also connect with Tony on LinkedIn. We will link to all of this at bigduck.com/insights.

Farra Trompeter: So Tony, we covered a lot in this conversation, but I’m just wondering, is there anything else you’d like to share before we go?

Tony Martignetti: I want folks to take away that if they are at small and mid-sized shops, which your listeners are, I’m sure, just like my podcast listeners, same, same audience. Planned giving is easy. It’s accessible. It’s affordable for you. It’s not something that you should be intimidated by and I hope you’ll look into getting the book Planned Giving Accelerated.

Farra Trompeter: Great. Well, thank you, Tony, for being here. Thank you, everyone, for listening, and have a great day.