How can nonprofits make videos sustainably?

Ally Dommu: Hello, and welcome to the Smart Communications Podcast. I’m Ally Dommu, director of service development and worker-owner at Big Duck. And I’m really excited to be here today with my friend Ben Nathan, who is a filmmaker and founder of All of Us Films. And so let me just introduce you and tell you a little bit about Ben. So Ben Ryan Nathan is an award-winning filmmaker based in New York. Over the past two decades, he has produced, directed, and edited over 200 commercials, viral videos, short-form documentaries, and branding marketing projects, garnering over 20 million views online and on TV. He’s the founder of All of Us Films, which is a social impact production company working with NGOs, nonprofits, and mission-driven brands on human rights, environmental and social justice storytelling, and is currently directing two independent feature documentary films, To Be Free, which is on labor trafficking in the US, and Come Dance With Me, which is about the power of dance to transform children’s lives. Under his leadership, All of Us Films has forged strategic partnerships with organizations and individuals throughout the film industry to collaborate on projects to entertain, educate, inspire, and unite. And they have a new offering called Impact Reel. And through this, his team is bringing a new, more accessible model to the same mission. And you’re going to hear a little bit about that on today’s show. So Ben, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it.

Ben Nathan: Yeah. I’m so excited to be here with you, Ally.

Ally Dommu: So let’s start, I want to hear a little bit about kind of what connected you and what brought you to this work of video and documentary filmmaking for social impact. I know you’ve spent your career telling stories and creating videos for different kinds of social purpose organizations. So what drew you to this work initially, Ben?

Ben Nathan: I was always interested in film. I got into film through dance, which is kind of another long story, but I’m originally a tap dancer. And once I got into film, I was, you know, fascinated by the art of filmmaking. You know, how do we make things that look so beautiful? And eventually got into the commercial industry. And from there, you know, I learned a lot. I was excited about the work that I was doing, but ultimately I wasn’t excited about what we were selling. And so I thought to myself, “Is there a way, is there a business model where a production company could just focus on social impact work, on nonprofits, on mission-driven brands? And is that something that could be sustainable?” And so that was what I threw my hat over the fence with in 2012 when I started All of Us Films. And here we are. So it’s still going.

Ally Dommu: Amazing. So there has definitely been a surge in nonprofits in particular using video to kind of tell their story and to use video more and more to use it for fundraising. And, you know, it used to be, it seems like (and I experienced this working in-house at nonprofits,) that like maybe a nonprofit would create one video a year, like for their gala, like one big feature piece, and maybe they’d share it a few other times, but that was it. But I know now, you know, video is so increasingly part of nonprofits’ communications and fundraising strategy. And there’s some stats I wanted to weave in here. Users will retain 95% of a message watched on video as opposed to only 10% read in text. So, pretty powerful impact that relate to video. And 57% of people who watch nonprofit YouTube videos go on to make a donation. That is from Nonprofits Source. And we’re going to, we’ll link to this in the show notes. So those are some powerful impact stats. So I’d love to chat a little bit about what you think is contributing to the rise and why more nonprofits are using video to tell their stories.

Ben Nathan: Yeah. I mean, we’ve seen that so many times too, that like you’re saying that nonprofits will produce one gala film per year or a brand film every few years. And we’ve produced many, many of those. We love doing that. But then what happens in the middle? And there’s this kind of void of really powerful, beautiful, emotive, authentic storytelling through video in the middle. And, you know, sometimes you can chop up pieces of things you didn’t use in the gala film and, you know, use them as separate assets, and that’s good. But what is going to keep an organization consistently in front of their audience in an emotional way? Not just an executive director saying, “Hey, we served 5,000 people this year,” or whatever that is. That’s important. But we also want to hear from those people that were served. That’s the story that’s going to hit the heartstrings.

Ben Nathan: So, more and more, we’re seeing the need for nonprofits to present themselves and those kinds of stories on their social media platforms, which is how people are just naturally connecting and interacting with them. So it’s definitely important, and it’s a struggle that we see a lot of nonprofits going through of like, “How do we actually do this? You know, we have all of our other work to do. We have all the work we’re actually doing to serve people, plus our fundraising. How do we actually keep up our social media presence or our email blast presence in this way that’s going to necessitate video in many cases?”

Ally Dommu: Yeah. You brought up a couple interesting points in that. One is about authenticity and the power of authenticity in videos. And I think that more and more people are a little bit more skeptical of overly polished content. So I want to talk about that. And you also talked about the sort of like sustainability and the labor, and how does it actually work to be creating videos in an ongoing way? Not just once a year, but as part of your ongoing nonprofit communication strategy. Let’s start with the authenticity piece. How do you think nonprofits can approach developing videos and stories that don’t feel overly polished and that really authentically represent their work? What have you seen work well?

Ben Nathan: One of the things that I think works great is having a conversation. And, you know, so if you’re recording a conversation sort of like we are, even if you just use a snippet of, for example, this conversation, where it’s just one of us talking, that is going to probably feel more authentic than if I was reading a script, because most of us are not trained actors. Most of us cannot deliver a script in a way that really sounds like we’re not reading it, like it’s just occurring to us in the moment. And, you know, if you want to go to acting school and learn that, all power to you. But most of us don’t do that. So if we’re having a conversation with someone, that’s usually the most authentic we’re going to be. So when we record those kinds of conversations, even if it’s on a phone, like that’s going to be way more authentic sounding than somebody reading a script or trying to recite a story.

Ben Nathan: That’s why when I interview people, you know, many times they’ll say, “Can you share the questions with me in advance?” And I say, “No, sorry.” You know, I’ll share bullet points with you of what we’re going to talk about. But if I share the questions, then they’re going to rehearse, even not intending to, they’re going to rehearse their answers in their head and it’ll be, it’ll sound canned. So, you know, it’s always like, we want it fresh. We want it like just like it’s just coming off of the tongue.

Ally Dommu: Yeah. So if an organization is starting to think, “Okay, maybe, maybe the next step is we’re starting to just like record conversations from my nonprofit, right? I never did this before. I haven’t like captured video of conversations.” What kinds of conversations? What kinds of exchanges should organizations be thinking about to effectively like represent their mission and kind of, what might they focus on?

Ben Nathan: So, I think it’s important to think about who’s affected by this work. So let’s imagine a nonprofit that works as a social services organization or something like that, that works with people in the community. So thinking about, like, who are some people that we’ve worked with who’ve had a really positive experience that could speak to that. And then, you know, what I’m saying “conversation,” but really it’s an interview. So, you know, somebody on the team, and sometimes it’s an external team as well, like ours, is interviewing that person to understand, you know, their story, to hear it, really focusing on listening and listening in a very attentive way to hear what the powerful points of this person’s story are.

Ben Nathan: But it can also be staff. Staff are also really affected by the work that they do, and especially in nonprofits. They’re there for a reason. They don’t have to be there. They’re there because they chose this kind of work. So, what is it about this work that lights them up? What’s their personal connection to it? Donors. Donors are a big piece of the story too. Why are they giving? Why did they choose this organization and not a different one? What personally connects them to this particular cause? Those kinds of stories, that’s what’s going to hit somebody else in the heart and make them feel like, “Oh yeah, I want to give to that, or I want to be involved with this in some way, or I want to come work at this organization.” So it’s really about interviewing people, asking questions, and listening. And just, you know, don’t worry about getting through all of your questions. Make sure you’re getting the essence of who that person is, the challenges that they went through, how those challenges got resolved, what was the solution, and what’s really, like, impactful to them about this particular organization and the work they do?

Ally Dommu: Yeah. And I would imagine a lot of people listening to this podcast right now have done storytelling for, you know, focused on the people that are impacted by their work or told stories about their donors or their staff, but maybe it hasn’t as much been through the means of video. Maybe it’s been, you know, in their impact report, their annual report, or that they’ve told stories in their regular newsletters or on their blog or whatever. So, but the shift to video and this like more conversational, interview format has potential to have a more emotional impact than reading a blog post about a donor story.

Ben Nathan: Right. And I think, I’m not going to say it’s a positive thing, but many people don’t read. So I think it’s about having the right tools for the right need. So having a headline that’s written for something or a statistic that’s written out, that’s really a good use of text. Having, you know, an emotional quote from somebody printed on a piece of paper or on a screen is not going to hit as much as hearing that person’s voice and seeing their face. That’s where you really get the emotion. So I think we have to think about, how are we using the tools at our disposal for each different thing? And it doesn’t have to be that every video that is produced is a major expense and a huge footprint and a big crew coming in. You know, we do those kinds of projects. We’ve done them for years. But that’s why we also have started this new Impact Reel offering that is specifically tailored to not having a big footprint, to not having a huge cost to it, and being something that’s repeatable that organizations can do on a monthly regular cadence. Because that consistency is really important, too.

Ally Dommu: And you were speaking about experiences with communicating to clients and community members about the work of the organizations, maybe those in particular that had positive experiences working with the nonprofit. I’m curious, as you’re, like, setting up these interviews, whether that’s through Impact Reel or if a nonprofit is thinking about setting up these interviews or conversations to record with members of their community, how can nonprofits make sure that they are going about capturing video ethically, especially when the people at the center of the story are like clients or community members that are directly impacted by the issues that the organization is going through. What are some considerations you bring to like ethical video storytelling?

Ben Nathan: Yeah, I think that’s a super important question and not enough people ask that. The most basic level is consent. Of course, you want them to sign a release form, but it’s also about like just having a conversation with someone and saying, “Hey, you are going to continue to be served by this organization whether you participate in this video that we’re asking you to do, or not. This has no bearing on how anybody’s going to think about you or treat you.” You know, it’s important to say those things out loud and not just assume that they’re understood and really mean them. But also, to think about how can you ask these questions and conduct this conversation in a way that is actually honoring this person and appreciating and respecting their willingness to share their story, versus feeling exploitative. If something feels exploitative to you, it probably feels that way to them too.

Ben Nathan: So I think it’s really important. I always tell people that I’m interviewing, “Hey, if there’s anything you want to skip, just tell me. We’ll skip it. If there’s anything you want to say again because you don’t like how you said it or you said something you didn’t really mean to share, let me know. We’ll rerecord it.” So just kind of like, make sure that they know that they have agency and that they are, their voice really matters and their consent matters. And even though they’ve said “Yes” upfront, their consent throughout the whole process still matters, too.

Ally Dommu: That’s great. Thanks so much for sharing that. I wanted to ask a little bit about AI in video because that’s kind of everywhere right now. Where are you seeing AI tools genuinely helping nonprofits or mission-driven organizations? And where are you seeing that they’re posing challenges and potentially, like, undermining trust or, you know, getting in the way of that authenticity we spoke about?

Ben Nathan: I think it, it’s exactly what you’re saying. We want to use AI tools to help with the process, but not to undermine authenticity. So, you know, one way AI tools can help with processes is if you record an interview, whether it’s on your phone or on your laptop or on a camera, there’s great AI tools that can quickly transcribe those interviews, that can let you edit them without a lot of editing experience just by editing the text, and it’ll then edit the video itself. I’m talking about tools like Descript, which is great. They’re not paying me to say that, but it’s a very good tool that we use sometimes, also. So I think that’s a very good way to use AI, like transcription. Even, you can give a program like Descript quick instructions like, you know, “Give me the top clips from this, you know, interview that talk about these three topics.” And it’s not perfect, but it’ll do a decent job of that. It’ll kind of be almost like an assistant editor getting you part of the way there. So that’s one way to use AI that I think is helpful.

Ben Nathan: A way that can undermine things is when you, you know, you don’t have footage that you need for something, and you say, you have AI go generate that for a nonprofit organization which lives and breathes on authenticity. Anything that feels not real is going to feel not real to the audience. And the audiences are getting more and more savvy about picking up, “Is this real or isn’t it?” You don’t even want that question to enter their mind, “Is this real?” You want them to just take it for granted that everything you’re putting out is real. That’s what’s going to keep people feeling connected.

Ally Dommu: Yeah. I often, in situations in my work, you know, doing branding work for nonprofits, where I look at the video assets or the photography assets that they’re using, and it can be hard to acquire great photography no matter what, but nonprofits are in such a unique position because they’re doing the work. They’re in community. They’re doing the authentic storytelling. They don’t need, you know, to use stock or like, you know, AI-generated imagery because they’re doing the real human work on a day-to-day basis. That being said, sometimes they do face obstacles in getting permission, or, you know, for organizations that are maybe one step, like, beyond the direct service work, it can be hard. But that’s always something that our team always tries to emphasize and prioritize with our clients is to, as much as possible, capture, you know, genuine, authentic video and, and imagery of the community that you serve.

Ben Nathan: Right. That’s one of the things we’re actually doing with a couple of different clients now is just even from the video assets we create, we’re pulling high-resolution stills from those videos to give them to use on their website because some of them did have stock in the past. And it’s just, it’s obvious. You know, you can tell that that’s stock. So like you’re saying, if you have access to those people anyway and the work that you’re doing is right there in the community, as long as it’s ethically fine, definitely try to use those real people.

Ally Dommu: Yeah. So I want to come back to what you introduced about your new kind of venture, Impact Reel, and kind of talk a little bit about the capacity and the sustainability of doing video work because nonprofit communicators and fundraisers, there’s so many things coming their way all the time. And it could feel, I would imagine, a little intimidating or unclear if you haven’t done any video work. Like, “Where do I even start?” Many nonprofit teams might feel that they can’t afford to do it well, or they don’t necessarily have the skills, or they’re equipped to be able to do video work. So what would be some advice you’d give to a nonprofit communications or fundraising staff person who feels a little like stuck in, what am I doing with video? What can I actually take on?

Ben Nathan: Yeah. I think one important thing is to just try it. The tools now are so accessible to most people that you can certainly try. I think, you know, filming an interview with somebody on your phone. If you have a decent phone, you’re going to capture pretty good audio and video. It’s never going to look like it was shot by a crew, but that’s okay. It’s okay for social media for things to look that way. And then I would say just give it a shot. Try recording something. See if you can edit it a little bit to keep it succinct and engaging. Even if you don’t have tons of other footage that you’re cutting to and it’s just clips of a person telling their story, if that story’s engaging, people will watch it. So I would try that. I would just see how it goes.

Ben Nathan: The challenge can sometimes be consistency, like making sure you’re getting more of these done on a regular basis. So the people who are viewing your social media profiles or viewing your email blasts are getting accustomed to really beautiful, powerful stories and expecting them. And then, you know, if they just drop off suddenly because that person went on vacation or isn’t at the company anymore, that can be a point where, “Okay, maybe we want to bring somebody in to work on this.” You know, what we’ve taken into account with Impact Reel is really how do we keep this as affordable as possible so that people can be on a monthly cadence and know that this is just getting done. It’s not another thing on organizations’ plates.

Ben Nathan: But even beyond the consistency, it’s also about how are you as an interviewer? It’s not easy to interview somebody if you haven’t done it before. One simple thing, and I’ll, you know, just give this as an example, is when somebody’s talking, to not say anything while they’re talking. You know, don’t talk over them because usually those videos are going to be edited to just be the interviewee responding to questions, not the interviewer asking those questions. So, you know, you don’t want your voice co-mingled with their voice in the audio recording. That’s something that, you know, it’s sort of an easy thing to avoid if you know about it. But there’s a million things like that. So it’s like, give it a try, see how it goes. You might end up with some really beautiful stories. And it’s good to know that there’s some resources there too, if it becomes something that you’d want to kind of put on autopilot.

Ally Dommu: That’s some, yeah, really great advice. So last question, what’s one thing a nonprofit could do this month if they’re interested in getting started with video or advancing their video practice? Where can they start?

Ben Nathan: I would give yourself a challenge. You know, say “I’m going to record two interviews this month and post two videos.” That’s it. Just try. See how it goes. See what the reactions are. You know, see if you get responses to your email blast that you weren’t getting before. See what the views look like. See if you’re getting comments on social media. Just compare it to something else you were posting previously and see how it goes. You can either tweak from there, or you can say, “Hey, this really worked. We’re going to keep doing this.” But it’ll give you a proof point to just have started. I think getting off of the like, “Oh my gosh, video is such a big undertaking.” Getting past that part is such a huge step in the right direction. So I just challenge people to try. And I’d also just really be interested to see what people come up with.

Ally Dommu: Yeah, absolutely. That’s the best advice. You know, it’s just experiment and try. It doesn’t have to be that you’re signing up for a year-long strategy, but just get the practice started. Well, Ben, can you share a little bit about how people could reach you through your production company and learn more about the Impact Reel project?

Ben Nathan: Yeah, absolutely. So Impact Reel is something people can check out on ImpactReel.co. It’s ImpactReel, R-E-E-L. And everything is up there. The pricing is very transparent. We have a nonprofit discount built in for folks. And then All of Us Films is there as a resource for organizations that want to take one further step to producing something that’s more with a documentary film crew, that’s on a higher level aesthetically and production value-wise. And so anyone can really reach out to me at any point with questions about any of these things. My email is [email protected]. I’m very accessible. You know, I like to talk with people and really hear about their missions and what they’re up to and see if there’s a reason that they would want to bring us in for something that, that would really serve them.

Ally Dommu: Thanks so much for sharing that. And we’ll definitely link to those sites in the show notes as well. Ben, it was really nice to talk to you today. Thank you so much for joining the podcast. And for all of you listening, have fun making your videos. Good luck out there.

Ben Nathan: Good luck.