How can you engage your community with campaigns?

Farra Trompeter: Welcome to the Smart Communications Podcast. This is Farra Trompeter, co-director and worker-owner at Big Duck. In today’s podcast, we’re going to ask the question, how can you engage your community with campaigns? And I’m delighted to be joined by Nicholas Bruneau. Nicholas uses he/him pronouns and is a communications consultant who has worked for intergovernmental agencies from the UN World Bank and EU, as well as nonprofits, associations, media, and political groups. He’s managed campaigns on international development, education, sustainability, and climate change issues. His recent book, Engage with Impact, compiles actionable tips and tactics to inform digital advocacy. Nicholas is Canadian and works from his home office in Cascais, Portugal, where I happened to celebrate my 50th birthday earlier this year, so excited to magically be connected to you in this way. And Nicholas, welcome to the show.

Nicholas Bruneau: Wonderful. Thank you for the invitation.

Farra Trompeter: Before we dive into your book and collection of helpful advice, let’s start with a little bit about you and your journey. What led you to write this book and who do you hope reads it?

Nicholas Bruneau: I started actually during the pandemic, I was interested about hearing about case studies and how people were dealing with the new situation of staying at home. So I did a global survey of about 236 marketing and communications professionals, and I asked them, “Okay, how has the pandemic changed the way that you communicate?” And actually, I was quite surprised. Over 80% said that the pandemic helped them to be more agile and to be more resilient. So I thought it would be interesting to hear how they are really accelerating and succeeding online. So I started a series of interviews of communications directors from various organizations, nonprofits, multinationals, to hear how they are really succeeding, to hear some case studies, and to really dive deep into some of their strategies and tactics. What I see is that there’s a lot of books out there on digital communications, digital marketing, but you know what? We’re not selling products where we have a different point of view and we have a different landscape. So what Gary Vaynerchuk says really doesn’t relate to our reality. So I wanted to have something that was really only for nonprofits and international organizations so they could really see themselves in this transformation and see actually, you know, it’s possible to change and it’s possible to really succeed online.

Farra Trompeter: Great. So the book, let’s talk about it. At the heart of Engage with Impact is a framework called AGILE. And I’m wondering if you can share a little bit about what AGILE stands for and how you arrived at that approach.

Nicholas Bruneau: AGILE is first: Adopt a startup mentality; Go digital-first; Inspire with personal stories; Leverage your content, and Empower your community. So all together, what I’m trying to do is I’m really trying to encourage a mindset change from the bottom up. So that first the organization internally starts to change the way that they work, starts to collaborate more internally. And then from that, then they’re able to branch out and start to use new digital tools, start to tell new types of stories, and then also then to connect with their community. So really it’s kind of like, you know, walking before you can run. First internally, sort of building those systems.

Nicholas Bruneau: In a previous job, I was working late nights and having a hard time keeping up and there was no real systems, everything was always improvised. I realized there has to be a better way. And a few years later I worked in an organization and they had different templates in place. The comms team was really integrated with the policy team and the CEO really believed in communications and was really engaged in it. Communications was really valued and was really part of not only just the mission but the day-to-day and people really aligned together and collaborated internally. So that, for me, was really a symbol of how to have a startup mentality and really the basis for being successful online. Because if you wanna be agile, if you wanna be quick in today’s environment, you really have to have that collaboration internally.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, and I also underscore in that story an organization that really puts the value of communications integrated into everything that they do. So, love that. As nonprofits might go in and start adapting the AGILE framework, I’m curious how they can actually use it to create digital advocacy campaigns. I know that’s really what you are focused on and I’m wondering maybe if you can share an example or possible scenario of applying the AGILE framework so our listeners can really understand what it’s about.

Nicholas Bruneau: Just going back to that first comment you mentioned, I’ve worked also with clients that don’t really believe in communications or they don’t really integrate it. And so communications is just an add-on. So it’s just something like, “Oh, we’re publishing a report. Can you send out a tweet?” You know, so that’s a situation where it’s very difficult to really change the way that you communicate can try, you know, incrementally, but it’s really difficult if you don’t have that buy-in. But one of the examples, and this is an example of a campaign that I worked on and an example in the book as well was the Global Partnership for Education. So they’re a global education fund that’s part of the World Bank. In 2020, they’re in the middle of preparations for their major replenishment campaign, and then all of a sudden Covid hit and they had to completely pivot and change the way that they were going to communicate. So all of a sudden the campaign had to go online. They created a whole microsite, they created a whole new call to action where people would “Raise their hand for education”.

Nicholas Bruneau: Then they developed a whole influencer campaign. We reached out to people like Michelle Obama, Didier Drogba, Naomi Campbell. But then we brought it down to engage with local activists, to engage with national politicians, and to really have something that would not just be a global campaign on social media, but where we would engage people at a micro level to organize small local webinars that would touch on key specific issues or target key specific audiences. And of course, to have a social media campaign where everybody could participate in “Raise their hand for education”. And then, in the end, I ended up organizing a hybrid event. With that event, in the end, and the whole campaign was really a collective effort. Like everybody was working together from the policy team, the CEO, and the comms team as well. In the end, they were able to raise $4 billion for global education programs worldwide. So really a success story of how you can pivot and then also adapt very quickly. And that’s also something that’s important is adapting to the circumstances, seeing what works, and then building on that.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, and in that story, I also hear a lot of really smart thinking about how to engage the people that you’re hoping to participate in the campaign. So let’s talk about the E and AGILE, which stands for Empower Your Community. I’m curious, how do you define community and how do you suggest nonprofits define community in their campaigns?

Nicholas Bruneau: First, it’s knowing your audience. So going back to the basics is knowing who is your target audience, what are they interested in? And also using language that they’re gonna relate with, staying away from terms like “system transformation” or “net zero” or “capacity building”. And I know Farra, you have annual words to avoid list, right?

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, we’ve got the 2025 one will be coming out soon, and we also have a glossary people can read. So we’ll make sure to link to both of those in the transcript. So thanks for the shout-out. Also, big fans of language guides to help you think about what you should lean into and what you should avoid. But yes, back to your story.

Nicholas Bruneau: Yeah, I was just this morning in a workshop where we had to sort of reassess the fact that we’re sometimes using jargon that is very specific and we’re not appealing to some of our target audiences. So it’s doing that, but also, it’s finding the, “What’s in it for me?” kind of value proposition. So if people are going to join your cause, if they wanna get involved, what’s in it for them? So how are you then finding ways in which they can feel associated and feel like they’re contributing and feel like they’re getting something out of it as well? So that’s tailoring your message to their interests and finding ways in which they can really feel connected. And then creating those stories that’ll highlight the impact you’re having in your community or for your cause. And using kind of a storytelling outline where you have a hero. So it could be the donor, it could be the partner, or the local activist, for example. So we have some stories where the hero is the local implementing partner. So it’s the organization that is really implementing change in their community. And that’s the organization I’m working with the way that we’re creating that storytelling outline. I think it depends with each organization, but it’s finding that hero that people can really relate with.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, I know in that last piece, Joseph Campbell did some great writing about The Hero’s Journey, and a lot of people use that to frame stories and having someone that you feel like can take you on that journey. We’ve also talked about how it’s important if you are going to make the donor the hero, how that can actually have negative consequences, how that can put other people back while we elevate the donor. And it’s important to avoid a “savior approach”. So I think in applying these, you have to put it through lots of lens, and I appreciate as you’re sharing sometimes, and oftentimes the hero might actually be the person on the ground who is receiving and activating the work that it is intended for.

Nicholas Bruneau: Yep, exactly. Exactly.

Farra Trompeter: So like you, we believe in the power of using communications to build community. And I’m curious, what tips do you have, either in the book or maybe just perhaps you’ve gathered since you wrote it, that nonprofits can use to connect and expand their community and partnerships?

Nicholas Bruneau: For me, I think it’s trying to sort of look at it in a comprehensive manner. Farra, we both agree that we’re not doing this job to get clicks and likes. We’re doing it to really have an impact, right? So first, how are you gonna then create that content funnel so that you’re transforming those social media followers into real activists or real partners in your journey? So it’s creating that funnel where first you create some great content to, like, bring people in on social media. And then also then you engage with them on social media. If you can have a community manager, of course, that’s great, but otherwise, you know, having a strategy where you’re asking questions and asking people’s advice and asking people to co-create your next campaign, for example. Or having community challenges. So different things online where people can feel involved. And then once they’re engaged online, then what you need to try to do is get them to subscribe as email subscribers, to try to bring them through into your platform, into a way that you can have a direct contact.

Nicholas Bruneau: If you know Joe Pulizzi, he said the famous quote, which is, “Don’t build your content house on rented land”. And then we’ve seen with all these social media algorithms changing, with X changing now completely, we cannot rely on social media alone. So we need to build our own platforms to engage with our community. And that starts with having a great email newsletter strategy. And then following that, the next step is then to start to get them involved in webinars or local events, different things where people can get more involved and see more of your organization, see the people behind the organization. It could be as simple as creating a WhatsApp group, getting people in that group to go and join local events or meetups, for example.

Nicholas Bruneau: A good example in the book is the Malala Fund. They wanted to create a newsletter to give a voice to young women and young girls in their countries to hear about what are some of the challenges that they’re facing. So, they decided to create a newsletter, and initially, they said, “Oh, well, we’re gonna need some content. Why not send a call out so that people can submit some content for the newsletter?” Well, actually, it was so popular that they were getting inundated with a lot of ideas, a lot of people wanted to contribute. And in the end, what it ended up being was a whole online platform, not just a newsletter, but an online platform where girls around the world can tell their stories, where they can exchange ideas, exchange experiences, and tips and knowhow so that they can also be successful. So a really collaborative program, which was called Assembly. So the Assembly newsletter and platform, I think they ended up winning a Webby Award, and they really created that sense of community. And now I’ve just noticed that the Malala Fund has then translated that into local events as well. So once they have the ability to organize events in some of those countries, they’ll pull in the contributors from that newsletter to then engage with them and then have an interactive dialogue at events or meetups. So it’s really a great example of how you can co-create content with your audiences, with your partners, and really create something that builds up. And it’s a win-win because in the end, you’re not only creating great content, but you’re getting closer to your community.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, I love that idea of co-creating with the folks that you’re working with, and also when we talk a lot about multi-channel campaigns, I think the default is thinking about, “Oh, well use email and social and our website”. But in your story, what I really wanna underscore is using both online and digital, but also in person. And offline. And in a moment where we’re not in a global pandemic, people do wanna come back together in person. So I appreciate that too.

Nicholas Bruneau: Exactly.

Farra Trompeter: So when we were preparing for this conversation, one of the things that you mentioned was that it is often taboo in the nonprofit or NGO sector to learn from our failures. And I’m curious, on an end note, why do you think that is and how should we push to flip that and start embracing our failures?

Nicholas Bruneau: Things are moving so quickly online that you need to experiment, you need to try new things. If we’re not experimenting and we’re not failing, then we’re not learning and we’re not advancing. There’s a quote by Stephen Covey, which is, “If you keep doing the same thing, you’ll keep getting the same result.” And actually, I would go farther and say that nowadays things are moving so quickly that you’ll get a worse result if you keep doing the same thing and keep communicating the way that you’ve always communicated. So we need to experiment and we need to find new ways of reaching our audiences and our community.

Nicholas Bruneau: In the book, I highlight an experiment by the nonprofit Candid, and this came from Julia Campbell’s podcast, Nonprofit Nation. So they wanted to experiment with short-form video, and they didn’t have the resources, so they couldn’t devote a lot of time to it. So what they decided to do was to have a controlled experiment. And that controlled experiment was, essentially, let’s do 20 videos over the next three months and see how those short-form videos do. Let’s have an analytical approach to look at which videos work, depending on the time, depending on the topic, depending on the type of video. And then after that, see which platform is doing best. They were surprised that YouTube Shorts did better, for example, but they did it in a controlled manner. So they were able to experiment and they were able to see what works, but in a very limited environment where they weren’t taking any risks. So they were limiting the risks. And I think that this is kind of the issue, is that a lot of organizations that are working in a highly political environment don’t want to take risks. So how can they find a way to limit those risks?

Nicholas Bruneau: So doing those kinds of experiments allows you to then try things little by little, without putting too many resources. And then after that, once you start to see the results, it allows you to get more buy-in from your managers, from senior management to then scale up that effort. So if you wanna start doing TikTok videos or whatever it is, this is a good approach to do it. Just little by little. When I talked about failure in my book, it really resonated with someone in Brussels, that works for the European institutions, and she said, we need to sort of learn how we can fail more often. And she organized an event just a couple of weeks ago called Epic Fails, where she brought together different communications managers from EU institutions to talk about failure. So I think it really is something that’s important and we can all learn from our past mistakes.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah, I’ve definitely heard the phrase “fail fast” coming up a lot. Yeah. And I just wanna mention to your last comment, Kate Meyers Emery from Candid also wrote a great blog on their website called How to run an experiment on your nonprofit’s social media, which we’ll also link to, as well as the podcast conversation that I believe she had with Julia Campbell on her podcast.

Nicholas Bruneau: Absolutely.

Farra Trompeter: Yeah. So if you’re out there and you’d like to learn more about these ideas, you can download a free reader’s guide and get the book at Engagewithimpact.com. You can also connect with Nicholas on LinkedIn and Instagram. And again, we’ll link to all of this at bigduck.com/insights. Nicholas, thank you so much for joining us, and before we sign off, any other words of wisdom you’d like to share with our listeners?

Nicholas Bruneau: What I’d like to say is that we should always try to test out everything before and during our campaigns. So a campaign is something that should be alive, it should evolve, and I think very often we forget to look at the analytics. We forget maybe even to try it out with our friends and to ask our friends and family, what do you think of this? It goes back to what we were talking about is, you know, having it in plain language and having something that everybody can relate with and always have an experimental attitude. So if you do that, then I think you’ll succeed online.

Farra Trompeter: Great. Well, Nicholas, as I believe we say in Portugal,
obrigada.

Nicholas Bruneau: Obrigada, si.

Farra Trompeter: Thank you so much for joining us and everyone out there, have a great day.

Nicholas Bruneau: Thank you. Farra.